Delta South
Candidates
Wally Oppal (Vancouver-Fraserview, BC Liberal, incumbent)
Dileep Athaide (NDP)
Duane Laird (Green)
Graeme Drew (Independent) (Withdrew April 30, 2009)
Vicki Huntington (Independent)
John Shavluk (Independent)
Impact of 2005 Electoral Boundaries Change
None.
Maps
Notes
This will shape up to be one of the major battles of the election campaign. Attorney General Oppal has moved from his Vancouver-Fraserview riding to Delta South (his area of residence) likely due to the fact that he would have a higher probability of winning in this riding. Vicki Huntington is formidable competition, narrowly losing to Val Roddick in 2005 by 37/33. Huntington has been on Delta City Council for many years, choosing not to run in 2008 to presumably focus on this election contest. The key for Huntington will be to swing NDP-leaning voters her way, while the key for Oppal is to convince BC Liberal supporters to get out.
There will also likely be a proxy battle with respect to Oppal’s performance as Attorney General in this riding.
I have classified this seat to be the “most interesting battle of the election” and would appreciate any input on the ground from people on this one.
My comment in the March 28 Delta Optimist……
“Vicky Huntington has been wondering where Wally has been in her recent campaign ads. He has been working in his Fraserview constituency, working with matters relating to the office of the Attorney General, and discussing policy and cabinet issues with his peers. That is how it works.
The real pressing and clearly more important question is where Vicki would be should she be elected? The answer is that she would be left out in the cold, wandering aimlessly through the equivalent of a political Siberia. With no friends to woo, no caucus to confide in, Huntington would be a political waste of space in Victoria.
Recent Ipsos Reid and other polls show the Liberals with a clear and probably insurmountable double digit lead. In all likelihood the Liberals will remain in power with Campbell at the helm for another 5 years.
In South Delta we have what would seem to be three options for our vote:
a) vote for the party that is going to win; b) vote for the party we know will be the opposition; or c) vote for an independent.
Since the outcome of the election seems certain, the best option for South Delta then is to elect an MLA who gets to sit around the table where the decisions are made.
But what about the other two options, voting for the NDP or for an independent candidate?
The majority of voters of South Delta have historically proven to be small “c” conservative, people who expect their tax dollars to be carefully managed in the service of practical need. We are not very tolerant of grand spending on social programming of questionable value. So, it is unlikely voters here are going to vote for the NDP in sufficient numbers to elect their candidate.
That leaves the independent option, Vicky Huntington. At first it seems an interesting and slightly romantic option. You get to send Campbell a message without having to hold your nose and vote NDP. But let’s examine the option a little closer and ask ourselves, what do we really get with an independent?
I respect everyone who runs for political office, including Vicki Huntington, but in Victoria – where party politics is the name of the game – an independent would be detached, left out… holding an empty dance card and lacking legitimate opportunity to engage in any meaningful collaboration with people who make decisions and influence cabinet and the Premier.
Let’s not forget that Municipal governance is completely different from Provincial governance. Independence means isolation from all the administrative and research support that is provided to political party’s in the legislature.
Huntington refers to caucus as a black hole. Caucus is the key to making a parliamentary democracy work.
Politics is all about relations with others. If you are an independent in politics you are, by nature, isolated from securing potential meaningful relationships with fellow caucus members, cabinet ministers and the Premier. This seems contrary to what is needed in South Delta. Is independence (isolation) a desirable goal for this constituency?
Like it or not, we depend on Victoria for health, education, infrastructure and other critical issues and that is not going to change anytime soon.
We get what we deserve when we vote. Carefully consider what you think you deserve in South Delta.”
Mike Schneider
wow mike schneider just proves, the bcliberals will not respect or recognize an independant elected by the people of bc. wally even said she would have no voice in the government, typical bcliberals, only our views matter
You need to be careful, the majority of MLAs are not government. In fact the provincial government would consist of an Executive Council which consists of the Lieutenant Governor (Governor in Council), Premier, government ministers, ministers of state, and delegate ministers. This Executive Council directs the government and civil service, oversees the enforcement of laws, regulations and policies. Together with the Lieutenant Governor, it constitutes the government of British Columbia.
Therefore MLAs who are not the Premier, or government ministers, ministers of state, or delegate ministers are not government.
Now one party may become the governing party, but the MLAs who are not in the government are called backbenchers.
So truly, an independent wouldn’t have any voice in government.
Thanks SS.
You have clearly adressed the way our parliamentary democracy works.
If people want to send a “message”, to flip the bird at the “man”, they need to do that through an MLA that can actually do something.
Mike
Still, MLAs do very important work in general, even if they are not in the government. They are extremely important in the legislative process, and they are in committee process too. These are very important stages for bills to be made into law. They can even introduce a few Private Member’s Bills, but again these take longer to get and are harder to pass.
Just an Independent MLA lacks much ability to influence things unless if everything is held in balance by that one vote. Which the chances of that happening are not very high. This means if there is a BC Liberal or BC NDP majority, it won’t change much… and even in a minority it may not change much if the big parties work together or such.
He or she has no say in government, because he or she cannot be in the actual government, but they have no caucus with a party in government or opposition to work with on getting things done. An independent, especially one like Vicki, would alienate herself from the BC Liberals and BC NDP and be the lone MLA left out, unable to get things accomplished for Delta South. I would imagine she would last one term.
But who knows, she could run as an Independent… grow weary of things and decide to join a party while an MLA.
everybody already knows backbenchers have no official power, so ss you didn’t need to recite the charter. but their still elected by the people and should have some input, which anonymous tried to say, that the bcliberals would not treat independants or anybody other then bcliberals, with a chance to have a say in what happens in their riding
SS: “They can even introduce a few Private Member’s Bills, but again these take longer to get and are harder to pass.”
I think you should review your understanding of the legislative process in BC. Private Bills and non-government Public Bills in BC are impossible to pass without the consent of government. They won’t even get debated.
You are right in saying, however, that Huntington, if elected, will have no direct influence on government. However, you are wrong in saying she will have no influence – she will. The fact is that it will make the BC Liberals more acutely sensitive to Delta South for 2013, they will take a lot of action to try to unseat her.
Mind you if the NDP get elected then I will agree she will have zero influence.
i’m a conservative supporter and myself and all my neighbours will be voting for vicky, the bcliberals have a smug attitude of (if you vote for vicky we won’t listen to her input in the legislature, vote for us and you’ll have a cabnit minister) i’m just saying the ndp has a track record of respecting the opposition (while in power) and the bcliberls don’t
Well as in any system when they do pass it is usually with the support of the Government, however very few Private Member’s Bills pass, and even more rarely have those of a crossbencher passed (in some countries in rare instances, but the more likely ones to pass are government backbencher ones). But in BC, and how seats are allocated right now, the only chance of a Private Member’s Bill passing is one introduced by a BC Liberal backbencher.
Huntington, if elected as Independent, would be a crossbencher since she wouldn’t be an MLA in the governing or official opposition party. But that is getting into specific terms.
There are other strategies to unseating her without her having influence. No doubt they will play the ineffectiveness card, make life miserable for her, and show she is not what Delta South needs.
“the only chance of a Private Member’s Bill passing is one introduced by a BC Liberal backbencher.”
Be careful with your terminology. In BC there are private bills and there are public bills. There’s no formal concept of a “private members’ bill” – this is a federal concept. It sounds like you are referring to a private bill, but I don’t think this is what you are arguing.
Opposition members can get private bills passed (albeit always on trivial topics like corporate restorations). Example – Harry Lali, Bill Pr 401, 2008.
I think what you mean are public bills brought up by non-government members – they are never debated; any government backbenchers that have viable public bills usually have them re-introduced by the government (the only examples over the past 8 years was Lorne Mayencourt getting the Apology Act and the Safe Streets Act elevated to the government).
“conservative supporter” said “i’m just saying the ndp has a track record of respecting the opposition (while in power) and the bcliberls don’t”, I really wonder if he/she knew anything about 1991 to 2001 since this comment made me laugh. Any party in government does not respect the opposition, period.
Overall, the argument that Huntington’s campaign is making (i.e. “If having a BC Liberal member is so important, where were you in the last 8 years?”) is quite valid.
A Private Member’s Bill is what they call any public bill that is not introduced by a Cabinet Minister (government), so any public bill introduced by a backbencher or crossbencher. A Private Bill is completely different in that it is a special one that only applies to a certain or specific thing, and not the public at large.
They usually aren’t debated in any system, because there are ways of delaying and preventing them. Thus if you look at any countries using a Westminster based system (at federal and provincial/state levels) one can see very rarely do Private Member Bills pass. There are a lot of procedures available of delaying them, thereby preventing debate and any possible chance of them ever advancing – no matter which side of the house they are from.
Vicki’s campaign argument may be valid, but she may do more damage to South Delta if elected into a legislature where one party controls the majority. They will have a voice in her, and much like in her council years she will no doubt go off into her personal tirades. This would be quite ineffective in any majority government situation – BC NDP or BC Liberal. Perhaps if there is a minority government she would have a bit more influence, but we will have to see.
A lot of people will feel she would be ineffective, with no direct say or influence on government policy.
SS – you are right in ‘common language’, but the standing orders clearly have provisions for two different types of bills – public bills and private bills. The reference is – http://www.leg.bc.ca/38th5th/4-7-38-5.htm
They are debated in the federal system because their standing orders were overhauled a decade and a half ago to allow one hour of private members’ time and although it’s very unlikely a bill gets passed, it does happen.
Provincially there is zero chance of it happening since the government controls the public bill agenda and they correspondingly do not choose to debate members bills nor do they care about them.
In terms of Vicki, sending her to Victoria would send a much more powerful message to the BC Liberals (not the NDP) than if Oppal got elected there.
This will be a tight race, however.
The other thing is that “What has Wally Oppal been able to do for the residents of Vancouver-Fraserview”?
I have nothing against Wally Oppal; he’s been a very colourful member of government and tasked with doing the unenviable job of taking the “fall” for the Premier on a lot of issues. Just that the arguments they’ve been using to not elect an independent MLA have been garbage, like some of their “it’s before the courts” arguments in question period on issues that aren’t even before the courts.
You may all be forgetting the strong possibility that we may have a new electoral system next time round. In that event Vicki would have a real impact. It is time that the twin polarised B.C. politics, and their entrenched insider supporters, got a reality check. For too long we have been hostage to developers and unions.
For the record I am supporting the BC Liberals in Delta South so I clearly have a bias but I made my decision to do so not based upon ideology but by a careful analysis of what was in my own best interests and I believe that of my fellow South Delta residents.
I don’t believe that it is a matter of the BC Liberals failing to respect independent MLAs but realistically there is a hierarchy in operation and to insist that it has no significance is unrealistic. Were Ms. Huntington to be elected as our MLA and if she came up with a brilliant idea that could benefit the whole province I believe that she would get a fair hearing in the legislature. I think that the courageous decision to introduce a Carbon Tax is a clear sign that the BC Liberals are willing to do the right thing. However if she was trying to push a cause that was only relevant to South Delta residents her place in the hierarchy would work against her not because of a bias against independents but because of the practical operation of the Provincial Government. The hierarchy looks like this (given a BC Liberal Government):
Lieutenant – Governor (notionally the top)
Premier (realistically the top)
Cabinet
BC Liberal Caucus
Official Opposition Caucus
Independent MLAs
The chances of action being taken by the government on an issue that only affects one riding is going to be much better if promoted by a Cabinet Minister than an independent MLA. For better or worse this is how things work in a Parliamentary Democracy.
The importance of voting for the best candidate, regardless of party, can be summed up in two words: Chuck Cadman!
The question then becomes how do you define “Best Candidate”. If your definition of “Best” is, as mine is, the Candidate most likely to be able to influence government policy with respect to issues that are relevant to South Delta residents then as Gordon Campbell is not running in South Delta the next best choice is someone likely to be a Cabinet Minister, Mr. Oppal.
If we are looking for the candidate most like Chuck Cadman I’d have to go with John Shavluk. However as the chance of there being exactly 42 BC Liberals and 42 NDP MLAs in the next legislature seems remote I doubt that Mr. Shavluk would have the same political impact that Mr. Cadman did.
Is that the same John Shavluk who was dumped as a federal Green Party candidate in Newton-North Delta last election?
Yes it is.
It is also the same john shavluk who has a BC Supreme Court trial date of January 4 2010 to rectify that situation.
And the same person now expecting the Greens offer of settlement rather than them going to court and Yes looking like libellous bully’s.
The case is pretty clear.
Libel and now conspiracy.
Thank you Richard!
Hey people if you think I wont put Delta South on the political map and not cause our getting our proper share….well I guess go back to having a sitting member.
We have seen though…. that this move still amounted to no representation with our issues.
My efforts were and are so effective that I was attacked and silenced with …get this…..even Steven Harper himself….. attached intimately with the lead blogger in my soon coming public court case. If you would like to see this proof now instead just advise with an email address.
Or a simple Google search will show it to you.
Only one issue from any other party was ever put up on the Con’s own website during the last session. It was this one…..
http://greenparty.ca/en/node/2990
Now as I say I have been put through a lot in my life and experienced a lot of different things that yes have grown me and provided very good skills that I know will help our neighborhood.
And I also say the BC NDP …the BC Green…and the federal Green party’s all have “taxpayer cash saving policy” now ! to deal with your Canadian teenagers “coming of age” party choices instead of millions more dollars ignorantly just wasted.
As outdated and stupid laws waste resources needlessly and only the ingrained graft and corruption keep off the policy table.
I have been threatened by bikers but still say the police were the most abusive.
I worked hard for Jack Layton for almost 4 years after he asked me to and watched him turn into a cowardly hypocrite and for speaking up with the truth the very same day I only ended up with multiple police forces here bullying and scaring my whole family with made up stories and with what now turns out to be ” NON EXISTENT” “OCCURRENCE NUMBERS” or Yes the federal NDP as well would have been part of the solution now instead of the joke I learned they really are.
When and if the truth ever does finally make it out there…. most Canadians will be yes shocked to find out about the blatant abuses against Canadian Citizens only for their standing up to bully’s or for spreading the real truth and just being patriotic and really just being concerned with their fellow man.
I have zero to hide.
My whole story is out on the internet.
I have even named names!
I have screamed from the wilderness for 18 years about what I have been through and what I am doing about it and no I wont stop even after the people of Delta South vote for a party again instead of yourselves.
I will have tried the best I could …again!
But I assure all of you of this …. I can give you a list of changes I alone…because of my passions yes made happen ….mostly as I say without even a supporting party.
And maybe yes just by the party doing so as only a way of quieting me down !
I do say right here and right now…though …that no one is more qualified to be our MLA and no one will fight harder for our fair share than myself !!
I challenge you all to do a little more research about a MLA’s actual powers to speak up for his or her neighbors and you will see you have nothing to fear for demanding personal service instead of just a canned packaged sell job soon after the votes are counted.
Please…. if you do care about your own powers and rights please yes take the time to see why even the Prime Minister of Canada felt I was too honest too effective and thereby too dangerous and needed to be silenced.
Yes ..I do ask for your support and yes I do promise to be the best MLA you have ever had….mark my words !
Cheers and good luck Delta South
John Shavluk
Delta South Independent Candidate
http://shavluk.com/
It has been said that we need a cabinet minister to have a say and influence in government. Perhaps this is why we have had no effective representation in South Delta for the last 8 years. It’s time to stop ‘taking one for the team’ and to start looking after our own interests. Although there are many provincial issues that need to be dealt with, we need to have someone with a voice for the local issues.
Not sure what you are saying Anon? Start looking after own interests? What exactly do you mean. The MLA is the elected voice for our community. One in government has a louder voice than anyone not in government (or opposition for that matter)
Ted Murphy of the Delta Optimist states it pretty well.
The best an independent can offer is to be a strong voice on local matters. The fact that limited platform has such wide appeal certainly says something about the Liberals’ treatment of this once-safe riding over the last eight years and speaks to the anger that continues to be harbored in Delta South.
This situation also makes us pretty darn unique across B.C.: we’ll be voting in a provincial election along with everyone else, but for many, the big picture will take a back seat to the little one.
He also says this….
“When you think of it, where an independent stands on a myriad of issues is, for all intents and purposes, inconsequential. You’re not voting for Huntington based on her platform with regards to economic recovery, the expansion of rapid transit, minimum wage levels or a multitude of other issues facing the province at this time. It’s the ruling party that will determine those outcomes.”
Every where in the world the people are getting rid of socialism, so why do some people here think it will work. That is why i am voting for the Liberals. They are best for the economy, and without wealth creation, nothing else matters. Because you need money coming in to solve most other problems.
Vicki will win because Delta voters are tired of being repeatedly tied down and trout-slapped by the Liberal government over the last 8 years. People are tired of the Liberal government ignoring Delta when the municipality has valid concerns, and then only paying attention to the area when the government wants to ram another pet project down the throats of residents, usually without their consent, because it benefits “all of British Columbia”.
The Delta area is rife with so many crucial issues — Burns bog and environmental concerns, the Massey tunnel, the Gateway project and the ill-conceived perimeter road, school closure threats, cuts at the hospital, mismanagement of the Agricultural Land Reserve, light, water and air pollution from greenhouses, the power line fiasco, poor public transit service, a lack of investment in Delta (except conveniently during an election)… the list goes on. None of these issues have been solved in the last 8 years; in fact, the Liberals have added their own gems to this pile.
I am a resident of Ladner and I can vouch that the Liberals, once respected and liked here, and a safe bet in past elections, have really lost their grip on this riding. Look at how close Vicki came last time – if she doesn’t win this time around it will be a shame.
It will be a shame if Vicki does win. A protest vote does nothing to actually get things done in Victoria. Vicki will be ineffectual in achieving positive outcomes for South Delta. As much as we feel down trodden, now is not the time to support someone who will have a very difficult time speaking on our behalf.
In South Delta the broader issues of the provincial election seem to be being completely ignored. All of the discussion seems to be about infrastructure; roads, power lines and ports and specifically about who can do the best job of ensuring that NONE get built in South Delta.
This is a pointless debate, South Delta is an integrated part of a Province, a Country and a World. We are the southernmost point on the Canadian mainland with access to the Pacific, we live in an area that is the most convenient route between BC’s two largest urban areas, and we are one third closer to the Gulf Islands than any other point in the Lower Mainland. For better or worse we are situated on an important crossroads that people and material must transit if the province and the country are going to have an efficient distribution system.
South Delta has not been treated “as a doormat” by the BC Liberal Government. If we want to have a healthy growing economy, infrastructure is required and some will inevitably be built in South Delta.
We have not been singled out. Our electric power gets to us via above ground power lines that run through residential sections of North Delta and Surrey. Many of us drive to work on highways built through farmland in Richmond and contribute to the tens of thousands of vehicles that transit residential areas of Vancouver every day. We enjoy Stanley Park and the beaches of English Bay and Kitsilano, the maintenance costs of which are primarily borne by Vancouver residents.
In a Democracy the benefit to the majority prevails and thus there may be some negative consequences for the opposing minority. Being at the table for the negotiations and trade-offs allows some mitigation e.g., you can influence whether it is “Plan A” or “Plan B” but no single individual has the power to force “None of the above”. Any candidate who claims that she will be able to block all infrastructure construction in South Delta is at best naïve, at worst disingenuous.
The Province is facing some serious challenges with the economic problems and escalating criminal violence. These are the things we should be thinking about as we head to the polls.
I have VERY strong roots in this riding. I know that Vicki had an excellent result in ‘05 due to the Delta Hospital fiasco and the ensuing “Recall Roddick” campaign…. and they almost WON!
And Vicki is also an Excellent candidate. Far superior to former Lib MLA Val Roddick.
But that was a very emotional matter in Delta South with a weak Lib incumbent when Vicki had momentum, which dwarfs any of today’s current localized NIMBY matters.
Delta council was very pro-active in opposing the Tsawwassen powerline upgrades, the SFPR through sections of farmland, development of Tsawwassen FN lands, etc.
But I also believe that Oppal has a much higher stature and is much more personable than Roddick ever was.
That said, the extraordinary endorsement yesterday of Wally by Delta mayor Lois Jackson (couldn’t believe it as I always assumed she was a Vicki supporter) as well as councillors Bruce McDonald (a former New Democrat), Scott Hamilton and Robert Campbell was a surprise.
I was always of the belief that Wally would have won in any event but these endorsements should seal the deal.
http://www2.canada.com/deltaoptimist/news/story.html?id=3db45932-25a4-4c45-861e-0af7d49dbe0d
BJ – on the opposite end, John Cummins (who is the only reason why the seat is considered safe for the Conservatives) ripped into the BC Liberals.
In any event, I don’t think endorsements (or condemnations) by other politicians really makes a difference on people’s voting decisions. Now if you had somebody like Wayne Gretsky endorsing a candidate, that would make a difference…..
from what i’m hearing from around south delta is nobody want’s wally or the bcliars,they wan’t vicky. the ndp treated south delta better than the bc libs. south deltan’s will vote for vicky