<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Referendum</title>
	<atom:link href="http://bc2009.com/referendum/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://bc2009.com</link>
	<description>The race for Victoria</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 08 Aug 2009 21:36:30 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Fred</title>
		<link>http://bc2009.com/referendum/comment-page-1/#comment-2010</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 May 2009 17:39:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bc2009.com/?page_id=1130#comment-2010</guid>
		<description>IR, Thanks for your clarification that White Rock is in a 4-seat region. I can see now (from the chart above) that Surrey is divided into two 4-seat electoral regions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IR, Thanks for your clarification that White Rock is in a 4-seat region. I can see now (from the chart above) that Surrey is divided into two 4-seat electoral regions.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: IR</title>
		<link>http://bc2009.com/referendum/comment-page-1/#comment-2003</link>
		<dc:creator>IR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 May 2009 15:40:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bc2009.com/?page_id=1130#comment-2003</guid>
		<description>Believe me, STV is a really well thought-out system that puts the voters first.

My personal prediction - if we pass this thing, then by the time we make it to the 3-election review we&#039;ll like it so much that the review will be a non-event.  It&#039;s fear of change that is holding us back the most, but once we try it the fear will quickly fade.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Believe me, STV is a really well thought-out system that puts the voters first.</p>
<p>My personal prediction &#8211; if we pass this thing, then by the time we make it to the 3-election review we&#8217;ll like it so much that the review will be a non-event.  It&#8217;s fear of change that is holding us back the most, but once we try it the fear will quickly fade.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: IR</title>
		<link>http://bc2009.com/referendum/comment-page-1/#comment-2002</link>
		<dc:creator>IR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 May 2009 15:36:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bc2009.com/?page_id=1130#comment-2002</guid>
		<description>Hi Fred,

A few things:

The Electoral Boundaries Commission put White Rock in a 4-seater.

There are no 8-seaters in BC-STV, and currently only one 7-seater is being proposed, and it is in the Victoria area.

Gordon Hogg would need to secure about 20,000 total votes from the 4 former first-past-the-post ridings put together, and not just the former riding.  He can do this not just through voters that rank him #1, but also with the help of #2 and #3 rankings from voters that preferred somebody else and don&#039;t win seats.  (Most of the time that losing candidate will one of two other Liberals, and the transfer mechanism ensures that Liberal voters keep their full voting strength regardless of which one they happen to rank #1.)

If he&#039;s popular enough with the voters Gordon Hogg will have no problem.  In any event, I can pretty much guarantee that you will have minimum 1 Liberal MLA and one NDP MLA.  The other 2 they will have to fight over, giving your district &quot;swing riding&quot; status.  (OK nearly every district will have that status, but it does mean that neither of the big parties will be able to take the voters of any region for granted.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Fred,</p>
<p>A few things:</p>
<p>The Electoral Boundaries Commission put White Rock in a 4-seater.</p>
<p>There are no 8-seaters in BC-STV, and currently only one 7-seater is being proposed, and it is in the Victoria area.</p>
<p>Gordon Hogg would need to secure about 20,000 total votes from the 4 former first-past-the-post ridings put together, and not just the former riding.  He can do this not just through voters that rank him #1, but also with the help of #2 and #3 rankings from voters that preferred somebody else and don&#8217;t win seats.  (Most of the time that losing candidate will one of two other Liberals, and the transfer mechanism ensures that Liberal voters keep their full voting strength regardless of which one they happen to rank #1.)</p>
<p>If he&#8217;s popular enough with the voters Gordon Hogg will have no problem.  In any event, I can pretty much guarantee that you will have minimum 1 Liberal MLA and one NDP MLA.  The other 2 they will have to fight over, giving your district &#8220;swing riding&#8221; status.  (OK nearly every district will have that status, but it does mean that neither of the big parties will be able to take the voters of any region for granted.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Fred</title>
		<link>http://bc2009.com/referendum/comment-page-1/#comment-1983</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 May 2009 06:51:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bc2009.com/?page_id=1130#comment-1983</guid>
		<description>I try to envision the impact of STV on White Rock and come to the conclusion that White Rock will probably be included in a 7 or 8 seat region with all of Surrey. IMO under the current system, Liberal Gordon Hogg will win the 2009 election in White Rock by 10,000 to 14,000 votes. Under STV it is possible that he would not be one of the top 7 or 8 top candidates in the Surrey region and therefore would not be elected.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I try to envision the impact of STV on White Rock and come to the conclusion that White Rock will probably be included in a 7 or 8 seat region with all of Surrey. IMO under the current system, Liberal Gordon Hogg will win the 2009 election in White Rock by 10,000 to 14,000 votes. Under STV it is possible that he would not be one of the top 7 or 8 top candidates in the Surrey region and therefore would not be elected.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://bc2009.com/referendum/comment-page-1/#comment-1903</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 May 2009 05:11:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bc2009.com/?page_id=1130#comment-1903</guid>
		<description>A friend sent me this excellent video of a forum up at UVic sponsored by the daily paper. The information is top-notch. No rhetoric, just three presentations on views of how things would be different, then a question period where lots of great questions are asked and the panel gives informed answers.
http://www.uvic.ca/resources/stv.php</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A friend sent me this excellent video of a forum up at UVic sponsored by the daily paper. The information is top-notch. No rhetoric, just three presentations on views of how things would be different, then a question period where lots of great questions are asked and the panel gives informed answers.<br />
<a href="http://www.uvic.ca/resources/stv.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.uvic.ca/resources/stv.php</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: IR</title>
		<link>http://bc2009.com/referendum/comment-page-1/#comment-1769</link>
		<dc:creator>IR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 18:16:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bc2009.com/?page_id=1130#comment-1769</guid>
		<description>Mike: I also don&#039;t like 2-seaters, but consider its overall importance:
- there is only one district proposed as a 2-seater
- this is an element of the system that is easily changed by future Electoral Boundaries Commissions, and it would likely be driven by input from those voters

The 53% poll you refer to was an online poll by Angus Reid. Their &#039;traditional&#039; poll showed 65%, and I&#039;ve seen another online poll come in at over 90% (not saying that I believe that one).  I think this thing will be very close.  One thing we do know is that more knowledge of STV and the CA invariably lead to higher levels of support.  Voters really like the idea of more accountable MLAs and less negative campaigning.

Even if it doesn&#039;t reach 60%, the support level will be very important.  Another 55%+ result leaves us in the same mess as before, with a clear majority wanting to change the system, and being held up by an arbitrarily high threshold that has no popular legitimacy. (Which just happens to suit those who prosper with the current system.)

Sacha: The Citizens Assembly considered keeping rural 1-seaters but too many people at public hearings in Northern areas said they preferred to have more votes count.  While I agree that 2-seaters are probably less than optimal, I don&#039;t see any problem with the other even numbers.  The presence of any strong 3rd party or independent will serve to ensure that the candidates have to be competitive, and the parties won&#039;t be able to take their seat counts totally for granted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike: I also don&#8217;t like 2-seaters, but consider its overall importance:<br />
- there is only one district proposed as a 2-seater<br />
- this is an element of the system that is easily changed by future Electoral Boundaries Commissions, and it would likely be driven by input from those voters</p>
<p>The 53% poll you refer to was an online poll by Angus Reid. Their &#8216;traditional&#8217; poll showed 65%, and I&#8217;ve seen another online poll come in at over 90% (not saying that I believe that one).  I think this thing will be very close.  One thing we do know is that more knowledge of STV and the CA invariably lead to higher levels of support.  Voters really like the idea of more accountable MLAs and less negative campaigning.</p>
<p>Even if it doesn&#8217;t reach 60%, the support level will be very important.  Another 55%+ result leaves us in the same mess as before, with a clear majority wanting to change the system, and being held up by an arbitrarily high threshold that has no popular legitimacy. (Which just happens to suit those who prosper with the current system.)</p>
<p>Sacha: The Citizens Assembly considered keeping rural 1-seaters but too many people at public hearings in Northern areas said they preferred to have more votes count.  While I agree that 2-seaters are probably less than optimal, I don&#8217;t see any problem with the other even numbers.  The presence of any strong 3rd party or independent will serve to ensure that the candidates have to be competitive, and the parties won&#8217;t be able to take their seat counts totally for granted.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sacha Peter</title>
		<link>http://bc2009.com/referendum/comment-page-1/#comment-1764</link>
		<dc:creator>Sacha Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 17:39:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bc2009.com/?page_id=1130#comment-1764</guid>
		<description>Mike - I told the electoral boundaries commission at one of their meetings that in no circumstances should they ever set the number of seats in an electoral district to be an even number.

Also if the boundaries in the &quot;extreme rural&quot; seats were such that they were one member constituencies vs. the urban constituencies that had multi-members, that would have been perfect.

Unfortunately for the EBC, all I can say is they screwed up the STV boundaries, I would agree.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike &#8211; I told the electoral boundaries commission at one of their meetings that in no circumstances should they ever set the number of seats in an electoral district to be an even number.</p>
<p>Also if the boundaries in the &#8220;extreme rural&#8221; seats were such that they were one member constituencies vs. the urban constituencies that had multi-members, that would have been perfect.</p>
<p>Unfortunately for the EBC, all I can say is they screwed up the STV boundaries, I would agree.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://bc2009.com/referendum/comment-page-1/#comment-1761</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 15:29:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bc2009.com/?page_id=1130#comment-1761</guid>
		<description>That still does not address how people in ridings with few members are screwed over. In peace river, unless people vote 67% BC Liberal or 67% NDP/Green, they will end up with one MLA of each. In terms of representing the people of the riding, having one NDP MLA and one BC Liberal is just as poor a representation as having 2 BC Liberals. That district is neutered. It doesn&#039;t matter if it is overwhelmingly Liberal or NDP, because unless it is 67%+ one or the other, they still get treated as if it is 50-50. It is unfair to have districts of 2 MLAs when there is also a district with 7, even if the one with 7 has more people living in it.

It doesn&#039;t matter because as I said earlier, it looks like the referendum is going to win less support than it did in 2005. A recent poll has only 53% voting in favor: not nearly enough for it to pass. I think that many people are more inclined to vote against something that was already defeated, even if it originally had popular support. It’s beating a dead horse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That still does not address how people in ridings with few members are screwed over. In peace river, unless people vote 67% BC Liberal or 67% NDP/Green, they will end up with one MLA of each. In terms of representing the people of the riding, having one NDP MLA and one BC Liberal is just as poor a representation as having 2 BC Liberals. That district is neutered. It doesn&#8217;t matter if it is overwhelmingly Liberal or NDP, because unless it is 67%+ one or the other, they still get treated as if it is 50-50. It is unfair to have districts of 2 MLAs when there is also a district with 7, even if the one with 7 has more people living in it.</p>
<p>It doesn&#8217;t matter because as I said earlier, it looks like the referendum is going to win less support than it did in 2005. A recent poll has only 53% voting in favor: not nearly enough for it to pass. I think that many people are more inclined to vote against something that was already defeated, even if it originally had popular support. It’s beating a dead horse.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
